Interview III: Text Conversation with the Medical Supplier in Wuhan, China: A discussion of the pivotal role of Chinese herbs in COVID-19 and the situation in Wuhan.

Author:

Tina Chen, LAc and Grace Lu, LAc

File:

Medical Supplier Interview on COVID-19

Interview III: Text Conversation with the Medical Supplier in Wuhan, China:

A discussion of the pivotal role of Chinese herbs in COVID-19 and the situation in Wuhan.

Interviewed by Tina Chen, LAc and Grace Lu, LAc

Edited by Debra Nash-Galpern, L.Ac., DiplOM and Donna Chow, L.Ac., DiplOM

Published on March 23, 2020

In a world where there exists storms of manipulation in the media and fake news as well as a lack of sincerity, we at eLotus decided to search for the truth in the fight against COVID-19 with TCM. We care about the people in ways that go beyond the measure of words, and crave the need to know what is really going on. Is the media truthful? And, exactly how effective is Chinese medicine for this pandemic? We are all human, no matter where we come from. There is a human condition we all share and we feel there is a need to get to the heart of the matter. We all have the Hippocratic oath in mind to do what is best for our patients and this is an oath that deserves the utmost reverence if only by virtue of being human.

Earlier last month, our sponsor, Evergreen Herbs, donated a large truck full of masks and medical supplies to a Wuhan Hospital and thanks to this gesture, we were able to connect with the hospital and one referral led to another. Just the look in the eyes of those who were helped made us realize that they gave us more than we could ever give them.

It was an abundance of good fortune and to that end, we found 3 contacts: a nurse, a medical supplier, and a TCM doctor who were very eager and willing to be interviewed to help as much as possible so that their information can spread further than Wuhan and save more people. This interview features our WeChat conversation with a medical supplier from Wuhan. This is by no means a scientific research paper of any sort. It is simply a diary of friends helping one another.

We hope this interviews are able to help you prevent and treat this grave condition should it happen to you, your loved ones, or patients. The love donated was returned by an infinite-fold. We are grateful for their participation and sincerity. We hope you will pay this forward by spreading the word to your colleagues and community so more people can benefit from the treasure chest of Chinese medicine.

Wuhan Medical Supplier: I graduated from the Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) school of pharmacology, and now I am in the business of selling medical supplies. My wife works in the hospital. Through my job, I have many friends in the medical field and who work in the hospital. In recent years, I have not felt well, so I mostly stay at home. However, I will try to answer as many of your questions as I can.

eLotus: Hello, and thank you for speaking with us. Americans are starting to become infected by COVID-19. Would you please let us know what Chinese herbs you are using for prevention and treatment?

eLotus: Also, do you know people who were infected with COVID-19 and who used Chinese herbs as part of their treatment protocol? We really wish to know what has been used, and, primarily, what is effective.

Wuhan Medical Supplier: In all the formal hospitals, all patients are given Chinese herbs. Doctors are using the government recommended COVID-19 Formulas, #1 & #2. (See ingredients at the end of the article) You should be able to find the composition of those formulas easily online. Most of my colleagues and friends, who have been infected with COVID-19, are taking Chinese herbs, and they all feel it is of tremendous help, as it greatly relieves symptoms.

Wuhan Medical Supplier: There are so many patients in Wuhan this time so most people do not receive personalized care directly from a Chinese medicine doctor. Furthermore, as most hospitals do not have the facilities to cook herbs, the herb vendors in Wuhan are in charge of cooking herbs for patients. The government has taken over most of the TCM hospitals and clinics, and placed hospital beds in them, to quarantine patients and care for the critically ill. Hence, most herbal formulas utilized are set formulas rather than individually tailored ones.

eLotus: There are so many infected patients in Wuhan. I know that this will occur in America as well. Furthermore, here in the States we areway behind on testing. By next week the numbers of infected patients are likely to double.

eLotus: We live in the United States, and our mission is to promote Chinese medicine. Though we would, of course, wish to avoid this crisis entirely, at least we can share the power of Chinese herbs with the west, to mitigate the severity of this public health crisis, as I know they have been extremely helpful in treating COVID-19 in China. As most people outside of China do not necessarily trust what they hear coming from the Chinese government, it may be helpful to have you introduce to us your colleagues who are fighting on the front-line of this epidemic. For example, it would be helpful to meet a TCM doctor who has direct experience with treating COVID-19, and to learn from his or her experience. Furthermore, it would also be helpful to interview patients who have survived this infection, sowe can understand the challenges first hand and prepare for them. As Chinese herbs seemed to be so vital to treating the epidemic in Wuhan, we hope to help other countries to integrate the use of these herbs to lower the intensity and duration of the disease process, and thus limit human loss and suffering, and to overall halt the vector of disease.

Wuhan Medical Supplier: Right now, there are 2 TCM hospitals in Wuhan, Hubei Province TCM Hospital and Wuhan TCM Hospital. There is an Integrative Hospital in the former hospital, and they have an herbal pharmacology center so they may have more information.

Wuhan Medical Supplier: Actually, when patients enter the severe stage or sepsis, called SIRS (Systemic inflammatory response syndrome), there is little that Western medicine or Chinese medicine can offer. Earlier, when my wife’s colleague, Dr. Mei, passed away, doctors tried giving her a high dose of herbs, she was intubated, and put on a respirator, (ECMO), however, it turned out that all efforts were in vain and we lost her.

eLotus: Is it about 7 days from the onset of cold symptoms that one can develop SIRS or sepsis?

Wuhan Medical Supplier: What we learned from three doctors who,unfortunately, passed away from the hospital where my wife works (two of them were ophthalmologists), we suspect that infection via the mucous membrane is more severe. However, we need more studies to verify this theory. In another scenario, we suspect that there may be more than one strain of this virus, and that perhaps certain strains are more deadly than others, so this makes it very difficult to predict what the most effective treatment would be for each patient. Many hospital personnel have also been infected, however, perhaps they are a healthier population overall, so most seem to be recovering well. Hence, to answer your question, there is no conclusive evidence as to if and when sepsis may set in for a particular patient infected with COVID-19. Some patients may be septic after seven days; others may develop sepsis later on. As patients tend to be treated with herbs and/or medications to reduce the severity of their condition throughout their battle with COVID-19, we are beginning to see the number of cases that escalate into sepsis diminishing, and/or the severity of the sepsis is reduced, perhaps due to the herbs and medications used.

Wuhan Medical Supplier: Exactly how many people are currently infected in Wuhan is hard to say. The official number is 70,000, but my estimate is at least double that. I think the numbers are so high because we did not take adequate preventative measures from the start. Even now we do not know the origins of the virus and the government has been suppressing the truth from the start. However, after Dr. Li Wen Liang passed, and local government officials were replaced, information from the government seems to be more transparent.

Wuhan Medical Supplier: The people of Wuhan are suffering greatly. The lock down is very strict, but, thankfully, at least most everyone has access to food and water.

eLotus: Do you feel that COVID-19 is much more severe than the regular flu? Do you feel that the 3% mortality rate is accurate?

Wuhan Medical Supplier: From what I understand, the mortality rate of 2-3% is, unfortunately, about right. Looking at the numbers, I feel that COVID-19 is much more severe than the seasonal flu. Thus far, our government does not recommend freely taking just any Chinese herbs to prevent the virus, for example, they feel that the traditional formulas from the Wen Bing for febrile diseases are inappropriate for this situation. However, my friends are taking Jin Yin Hua, Ju Hua and Gou Qi Zi daily in tea form. I assume these are more or less improving overall resistance to the illness.

Wuhan Medical Supplier: The mortality rate for those who become critically ill seems to be around 50%. These critically ill patients can potentially suffer damage to their organs and central nervous systems. This scenario is not common with the seasonal flu.

eLotus: So the best approach is to enhance our own immune systems, correct? Then, if one starts to show symptoms, change the herbal strategy right away, and contact the relevant medical professions?

Wuhan Medical Supplier: Yes, early intervention is important. Wuhan is different than America in that we are a densely populated city. Prior to the official announcement, nobody was prepared to take preventative measures. This was very detrimental. But now with everyone taking precautionary measures, the situation is potentially becoming much more under control.

eLotus: Actually the integrative use of meds and herbs is also a good idea. Western medicine can be viewed as a super concentrated single herb. (After all, many meds are derived from plants).

The following is a cut and paste of a conversation he had with someone else:

Wuhan Medical Supplier: I am out hiking. I have talked to patients who have

been infected and they feel taking Chinese herbs really helped with their recovery.

Someone else: You mean the COVID-19 Pneumonia Formulas #1 and #2?

Wuhan Medical Supplier: Yes

Someone else: Does anything else seem to help treat this virus, such as Lian Hua Qing Wen capsules?

Wuhan Medical Supplier: Unfortunately, there are no real medications that, as of yet, have shown to be very effective in treating this virus. Furthermore, each person’s individual immune system responds differently in regard to sepsis or SIRS. Hence, if symptoms can be successfully suppressed with something like Lian Hua Wen Qing, and the patient’s condition does not escalate to sepsis, this is quite promising.

Someone else: Also, Umifenovir, an anti-viral medication seems to work well at early stages.

Wuhan Medical Supplier: From whom did you get this information? A front-line doctor?

Wuhan Medical Supplier: Both front line doctor and patients.

Wuhan Medical Supplier: From what I have seen, it doesn’t matter if you use Western medications or Chinese herbs, either one or both seem to help contain the symptoms, to a certain degree, and reduce the death rate drastically.

Wuhan Medical Supplier: However, if treatment is delayed until mid- or late-stage of the illness, regardless if you use Western or Chinese medicine, the effectiveness is, quite frankly, of limited value.

Someone else: Those in Fang Chang Hospital with mild symptoms can just take Chinese herbs for prevention.

Wuhan Medical Supplier: Dr. Mei passed away a few days ago. We could not save her even with high doses of the most effective Chinese herbs.

Someone else: Is COVID-19 Pneumonia #1 made in your hospital?

Wuhan Medical Supplier: This formula is set by the government. Most of all Wuhan hospitals are using the same one. It is not necessary to make a special request for it, as I do not think anything else is offered.

Someone else: Oh no, is your friend in the Fang Chang hospital?
Wuhan Medical Supplier: I will call you with details later. I am going hiking now.

eLotus: Thank you for taking the time to answer so many of our questions. We will share your insights with our TCM colleagues. If we can be of help to you, please don’t hesitate to let us know.

Wuhan Medical Supplier: Yes, I am happy to have met you, my new friends that posses both passion and integrity!

References:

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/Wikq6hrnKIZl7Iumg2bq5A

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/ktoYHmkOCyd5jT2CWbgbKg

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/R_sxiP-rDK0-y12p_RNKxg

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/YajZ_fycSKEoTBvzhOv5Wg

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/8SimH199C8D3tKHpbHx8xw

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/GLStx8XiB78tKv0cLDeRuw

Ingredients to recommended formulas continue to be modified as TCM doctors continue to search for better combinations. These ingredients are as of 3/8/20 from https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/8SimH199C8D3tKHpbHx8xw and https:// mp.weixin.qq.com/s/GLStx8XiB78tKv0cLDeRuw

Qing Fei Pai Du Tang

Ma Huang (HerbaEphedrae) 9g
Gui Zhi (RamulusCinnamomi) 9g
Fu Ling (Poria) 15g
Sheng Jiang (RhizomaZingiberisRecens) 9g
Xi Xin (Radix et RhizomaAsari) 6g
Guang Huo Xiang (HerbaPogostemonis) or TuHuoXiang (HerbaAgastaches) 9g
Zhi Gan Cao (Radix et RhizomaGlycyrrhizaePraeparata cum Melle) 6g
Ze Xie (RhizomaAlismatis) 9g
Chai Hu (Radix Bupleuri) 16g
Zi Wan (RadixAsteris) 9g
Shan Yao (RhizomaDioscoreae) 12g
Ku Xing Ren (Semen ArmeniacaeAmarum) 9g
Zhu Ling (Polyporus) 9g
Huang Qin (Radix Scutellariae) 6g
Kuan Dong Hua (FlosFarfarae) 9g
Zhi Shi (Fructus AurantiiImmaturus) 6g
Shi Gao (Gypsum Fibrosum) (unprocessed and predecoct) 15-30g
Bai Zhu (RhizomaAtractylodisMacrocephalae) 9g
Ban Xia (RhizomaPinelliae) Ginger processed 9g
Chen Pi (PericarpiumCitriReticulatae) 6g
She Gan (RhizomaBelamcandae) 9g

Instructions: Must serve in decoction; once pack a day, serve warm twice a day 40 min after meals

COVID-19 Pneumonia Formula #1

益气滋阴，清热解毒，燥湿除秽为主。用于预防，对于增强体质，预防新冠状病毒感染可以使用。Tonifies qi, nourishes yin, clears heat, detoxifies, dries dampness and eliminates turbidy. Used for prevention, to strengthen the body against COVID-19

Huang Qi (Radix Astragali) unprocessed生黄芪12g
Bai Zhu (RhizomaAtractylodisMacrocephalae)白术9g
Fang Feng (Radix Saposhnikoviae)防风6g
Bei Sha Shen (Radix Glehniae)北沙参10g
Mian Ma Guan Zhong (RhizomaDryopteridisCrassirhizomatis)贯众10g
Lian Qiao (FructusForsythiae)连翘10g
Yu Xing Cao (HerbaHouttuyniae)鱼腥草15g
Jie Geng (Radix Platycodonis)桔梗10g
Gan Cao (Radix et RhizomaGlycyrrhizae)甘草5g
Cang Zhu (RhizomaAtractylodis)苍术10g
Yi Yi Ren (SemenCoicis)薏苡仁30g
Guang Huo Xiang (HerbaPogostemonis) or Tu Huo Xiang (HerbaAgastaches)藿香 5g
Fu Shen (PoriaParadicis)茯神15g
Fu Shen (PoriaParadicis)茯神15g

水煎服，每日一剂，分两次温服，也可代茶饮，服用3-7天。Serve as a decoction twice a day warm. Use one pack per day. Alternatively, it can be decocted as tea and serve all day. Serve. 3-7 days.

COVID-19 Pneumonia Formula #2

2号方疏风清热，解毒利咽。用于疫病初期以发热、咽痛、咳嗽，舌苔略厚，舌尖红为主要证候。(风热袭表证)This formula disperses wind, clears heat, eliminates toxins and benefits the throat. It’s used for the beginning stage of Wen Bing (warm disease) with fever, sore throat, cough, slight thick coating, red tongue tip.

Jin Yin Hua (FlosLoniceraeJaponicae)金银花15g
Lian Qiao (FructusForsythiae)连翘10g
Bo He (HerbaMenthae)薄荷5g
Niu Bang Zi (Fructus Arctii)牛蒡子10g
Ban Xia (RhizomaPinelliae)法半夏10g,
Chai Hu (Radix Bupleuri)柴胡10g,
Huang Qin (Radix Scutellariae)黄芩 10g
Ban Lan Gen (RadixIsatidis)蓝根15g
Jie Geng (Radix Platycodonis)桔梗10g
Gan Cao (Radix et RhizomaGlycyrrhizae)甘草6g
Xuan Shen (Radix Scrophulariae)玄参15g
She Gan (RhizomaBelamcandae)射干10g
Fang Feng (Radix Saposhnikoviae)防风10g
Ku Xing Ren (Semen ArmeniacaeAmarum)苦杏仁10g
Qiang Huo (Rhizoma et RadixNotopterygii)羌活10g
Cang Zhu (RhizomaAtractylodis)苍术10g
Dou Kou (Fructus AmomiRotundus)蔻仁6g

One pack per day. Decoct into 400 ml and serve twice a day while warm. One pack per day, serve for 3 days. 水煎服，每日一剂，每剂煎取400ml，分2次温服，服用3天更方。

COVID-19 Pneumonia Formula #3

3号方分消走泄祛湿，辛凉轻剂透热。用于疫病初期以乏力、肌肉酸痛、纳差、便溏、低热，舌苔厚为主要证候。(湿温初起，邪遏卫气)This formula dispels dampness, ventilates heat. It’s used for the beginning stage of wenbing (warm disease) with fatigue, muscle pain, poor appetite, loose stool, low- grade fever, thick tongue coating.

Sheng Ma (RhizomaCimicifugae)升麻25g
Dang Gui (RadixAngelicaeSinensis)当归15g
Jin Yin Hua (FlosLoniceraeJaponicae)金银花25g
Lian Qiao (FructusForsythiae)连翘15g
Ban Xia (RhizomaPinelliae)法半夏10g
Ju Hong (ExocarpiumCitriRubrum)橘红10g
Fu Ling (Poria)茯苓15g
Cang Zhu (RhizomaAtractylodis)苍术15g
Da Fu Pi (PericarpiumArecae)大腹皮15g
Chai Hu (Radix Bupleuri)柴胡10g
Huang Qin (Radix Scutellariae)黄芩15g
Ku Xing Ren (Semen ArmeniacaeAmarum)杏仁10g
Guang Huo Xiang (HerbaPogostemonis) or Tu Huo Xiang (HerbaAgastaches)藿香
10g
Hou Po (Cortex MagnoliaeOfficinalis)厚朴6g
She Gan (RhizomaBelamcandae)射干10g
Zhi Qiao (FructusAurantii)枳壳10g
Zhu Ru (CaulisBambusae in Taenia) 竹茹10g
Ma Huang (HerbaEphedrae) processed 炙麻黄6g
Hong Jing Tian (Radix et RhizomaRhodiolaeCrenulatae)红景天10g

One pack per day. Decoct into 400 ml and serve four times a day while warm. Serve for 3-7 days. 水煎服，每日一剂，每剂煎取400ml，分4次温服，服用 3-7天。

COVID-19 Pneumonia Formula #4

4号方清泻肺热，利肺止咳。用于新冠病毒感染肺炎中期，以干咳、气短为主要症状症状。(湿热壅肺证)This formula sedates and clears Lung heat, benefits the Lung and stops cough. It’s used for mid stage COVID-19 patients with dry cough and shorteness of breaths as chief complaints.

Sang Bai Pi (Cortex Mori)桑白皮15g
Chuan Bei Mu (BulbusFritillariaeCirrhosae)川贝 10g
Bai Bu (Radix Stemonae)百部10g
Yu Xing Cao (HerbaHouttuyniae)鱼腥草30g
Lian Qiao (FructusForsythiae)连翘15g
Bai Jiang Cao (Herba cum RadicePatriniae)败酱草15g
Yi Yi Ren (SemenCoicis)薏苡仁15g
Mai Dong (Radix Ophiopogonis)麦冬15g
Lu Gen (RhizomaPhragmitis)芦根25g
Dong Gua Zi (Semen Benincasae)冬瓜仁10g
Ku Xing Ren (Semen ArmeniacaeAmarum)苦杏仁10g
Jie Geng (Radix Platycodonis)桔梗10g
Chai Hu (Radix Bupleuri)柴胡10g
Huang Qin (Radix Scutellariae)黄芩15g
Hou Po (Cortex MagnoliaeOfficinalis)厚朴10g
Hong Jing Tian (Radix et RhizomaRhodiolaeCrenulatae)15g
Sheng Ma (RhizomaCimicifugae)升麻 30g
Dang Gui (RadixAngelicaeSinensis)当归 25g
Bing Lang (Semen Arecae)槟榔10g
Cao Guo (FructusTsaoko)草果6g
Zhi Mu (RhizomaAnemarrhenae)知母10g
Bai Shao (Radix Paeoniae Alba)芍药10g
Shan Zha (FructusCrataegi)dry fried 炒山楂20g
Mai Ya (FructusHordeiGerminatus)dry fried炒麦芽20g
Shen Qu (Massa MedicataFermentata) dry fried炒神曲20g

水煎服，每日一剂，每剂煎取400ml，分4次温服，服用3-7天。One pack per day. Decoct into 400 ml and serve four times a day while warm. Serve for 3-7 days.

COVID-19 Pneumonia Formula #5

5号方泻肺平喘，祛痰化瘀，升清降浊。用于重症期以发热、严重呼吸困难，气喘、吸氧时血氧饱和度下降低于93%，舌质暗红，舌苔厚为主要表现。(疫毒闭肺证)This formula sedates the Lung, relieves dsypnea, dispels phlegm, resolves stagnation, ascends the clear and descends turbidity. This is for patients in the severe stage with fever, difficult respiration, dysnpea, difficult respiration, blood oxygen level drops below 93% when inhaling oxygen, dark red tongue, thick coating.

Ting Li Zi (SemenDescurainiaeseuLepidii)葶苈子15g
Ma Huang (HerbaEphedrae) processed炙麻黄10g
Sheng Ma (RhizomaCimicifugae)升麻30g
Dang Gui (RadixAngelicaeSinensis)当归25g
Lu Gen (RhizomaPhragmitis)芦根25g
Yi Yi Ren (SemenCoicis)薏米仁30g
Dong Gua Zi (Semen Benincasae)薏米仁15g
Tao Ren (Semen Persicae)桃仁12g
Ban Xia (RhizomaPinelliae)法半夏10g
Gua Lou Pi (PericarpiumTrichosanthis)瓜蒌皮15g
Cang Zhu (RhizomaAtractylodis)苍术15g
Jie Geng (Radix Platycodonis)桔梗10g
Jiang Huang (RhizomaCurcumaeLongae)姜黄10g
Chan Tui (Periostracum Cicadae)蝉蜕6g
Jiang Can (BombyxBatryticatus)僵蚕10g
Da Huang (Radix et RhizomaRhei) processed 熟军6g
Yu Xing Cao (HerbaHouttuyniae)鱼腥草30g
Jin Yin Hua (FlosLoniceraeJaponicae)金银花15g
Lian Qiao (FructusForsythiae)连翘15g
Shi Gao (Gypsum Fibrosum)石膏20g

水煎服，每日一剂，每剂煎取400ml，分4次温服，服用3-7天。One pack per day. Decoct into 400 ml and serve four times a day while warm. Serve for 3-7 days.

COVID-19 Pneumonia Formula #6

6号方开窍固脱，解毒救逆。用于危重症期，高热、神昏谵语、烦躁，胸腹灼热，手足逆冷，呼吸急促或需要辅助通气或者ECMO治疗者。 (内闭外脱)This formula opens orifices and consolidates collapse, detoxifies and is suitable for the critical stage with high fever, delirium, irritability, burning sensation in the chest and abdomen, cold extremities, accelerated respiration or the need for ECMO. (Interior closed and exterior collapse syndrome).

四逆加人参汤合安宫牛黄丸或人参 15克、制附子 15克，甘草10克，石菖蒲10 克送服安宫牛黄丸。水煎服，每日一剂，口服或鼻饲给药3-7天。根据情况静滴参附注射液、参麦注射液等，口服安宫牛黄丸治疗。

Si Ni Jia Ren Shen Tang (Frigid Extremities Decoction plus Ginseng) or An Gong Niu Huang Wan (Calm the Palace Pill with Cattle Gallstone) with:

Ren Shen (Radix et Rhizoma Ginseng) 15g
Fu Zi (RadixAconitiLateralisPraeparata) 15g
Gan Cao (Radix et RhizomaGlycyrrhizae) 10g
Shi Chang Pu (RhizomaAcoriTatarinowii) 10g

Serve with An Gong Niu Huang Wan (Calm the Palace PillwithCattleGallstone). One pack a dayorally or through a feeding tube.

RenShen (Radix et Rhizoma Ginseng), FuZi (RadixAconitiLateralisPraeparata), and/or RenShen (Radix et Rhizoma Ginseng) , MaiDong (RadixOphiopogonis) IV etc, canbeadminsteredwhenappropriate. Serve An Gong Niu Huang Wan (Calm the Palace PillwithCattleGallstone) orally.

COVID-19 Pneumonia Formula #7

7号方益气养阴，补肺通络。用于患者恢复期以干咳，胸闷，气短，动则加重为主要表现。(气阴不足，肺脾两虚)This formula tonifies qi, nourishes yin, tonfies the Lung and opens channels. It’s suitable for recovering patients with dry cough, chest stuffiness, shortness of breath which worsens with exertion.